I truly appreciate your time and great efforts in doctrinal essays and your wonderful books. Not all probation is negative; quite often, it is merely counsel to attend the temple more, read select scriptures, or pray more frequently and fervently. Maybe Shirly Mclaine was right. you can express so beautifully what my heart feels, and yet, I lack in ability to express myself! I always look forward to your writings and know you speak truth. He claimed, like so many others to have had an out-of-body experience. However, several people online were using LDS quotes in support of a false doctrine of reincarnation they call "multiple moral probations". It indicates, "Click to perform a search". Scriptures General Conference Come, Follow Me Gospel Library Media Library Music Library Life Help Inspiration. P.S. A looser neoPlatonism is more defensible both because it actually was in pretty widespread belief but also because we can trace phraseology from actual neoplatonic translations of the early 19th century. One aspect that seemed to fascinate her ex-husband was the idea of multiple mortal probations, Amber said. ", More significantly, JS' King Follett Sermon suggests that, after the resurrection, each heir to Godhood will eventually serve as a Christ in a mortal probation. and forms participate in forms) This form of Elijahness (which is to be distinguished from the individual Elijah) is reincarnated in that many individuals can participate in this form. I love your testimony of the clearer elements of this beautiful doctrine Eric. What a great man and prophet he was. There is a real fear of being labeled an apostate for believing these messages and for even having had my own experiences. Required fields are marked *. That information about Brigham and Heber ordaining each other to the Godhead is crazy stuff. true, it should only come through certain lines of authority. One of the most effective teaching tools for me comes Unfortunately, the divine version of the doctrine has not, and may not soon receive the proper attention and audience it deserves. Should there be an official declaration against every imaginable falsehood? deep questions about the eternities and the knowledge satisfied our questions knowledge for personal advantage is repulsive and would be a mockery of what I Denver Snuffer Jr. - Wikipedia The Mormon belief that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are three separate people who are one in their mission to bring about the salvation of all mankind. I was so happy to receive glimps and glimmers of this doctrine, as you would call it, through the scriptures. Orson Pratt apparently wasn't in on it or hadn't understood it as others had. Bruce R. McConkie 1915-1985. We have had two grandsons and a nephew commit suicide in their teens. I only wish that I could have been here more than two times. 'Onewhoiswatching' claims Two different 'Remnant Groups' - LDS Freedom These ideas make sense and just feel right to me. As for the sealing question, I certainly believe that sealings are very important. If they are returned then effectively this reading is denying they are resurrected at all. I would comment but feel it is too sacred. multiple lives, which to me is practical and actually very simplistic in I thank you and all of those who are trying to teach about Multiple Probation. That is there is a certain form that Elijah participates in as part of being a person. After Moses had a face to face conversation with God, he had It gives context for the possibility that aborted and miscarried babies, or even inexperienced humans who leave the world prematurely can still have a shot at life and prove themselves (Abraham 3:25). Single Probation Doctrine, and Mortal Experience. Even Christ talked about this principle to Simon and he also showed with his own example that he was acting under the law of baptism. My only doubt was in me and the ability to live the gospel of Jesus Christ. For many I love how this is turning into a string of testimonials. Is she the main source? For me, if I get caught in thinking that something I say or do will be that which saves or enlightens you, I am in dangerous territory. That is a place of their glory or what they're willing to accept. In words borrowed of the symbol of the baptism we will lay down our old body to receive a new one. When we get to where Jesus is, he will be just as far ahead of us again in exaltation." Here is where my thesis becomes a bit more speculative. Oh how I love you and Julie and all that I have learned from you both!! Multiple Mortalities of Angels Just after the section discussing the Re. Great topic. Ok so if we are going to be Christs of other worlds then do we have to go through all the suffering Jesus went through in Gethsemane and on the cross? Section 76 of the Doctrine and Covenants felt like fringe doctrine to some early members of the church when it was first received. The Mormon scriptures clearly state that meat "should be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.". (Joseph Smith, History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 7 Vols. Even Brigham Young said, My traditions were such, he confessed, that when the Vision came first to me, it was directly contrary and opposed to my former education. I love our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and I know He loves me. and Eve could not know good from evil without partaking of both, which is I hope and pray I will have the same courage. These ware resurrected Bodies, Violated the Celestial laws. When I wrote the first article in this series regarding Multiple Mortal Probations, I honestly expected it to be the least . We have multiple opportunities for learning and growth, and it provides a way for those who play a contrasting role for our learning to not be lost if they chose to turn back to the light. Or a more default reading that doesn't inject as much into the text is simply those who live in a telestial way get rewarded with the same. perhaps the first example of this idea. How tragic! It is as though our Asian brothers and sisters who comprise Mormonism today is pretty bland by comparison. To be associated with James Allen is an honor for me. One must review and agree to the rules of the group, established due to a few that join just to create contention and kick against the pricks. As for multiple lives and multiple mortal experiences, Joseph and the early saints were getting pretty creative and speculative by Nauvoo. How have most LDS people come to learn of the concept of multiple probations? Something didnt feel complete and this connects so many pieces in my life, in my culture, and even in our Hawaiian legends of gods and goddesses. 2:21. wasteth the days of his probation, 2 Ne. In the years since my witness of the Doctrine of Multiple Probations has increased considerably, I embrace it with eagerness. Im glad you feel that way Kendall. idea as crazy or ridiculous. Thank you so much for sharing your story! Latest from Saturday LDS General Conference : Speakers discuss mental health, pandemic, church attendance and obedience. When I was young, I was given a true, but what I now I have always know it to be true, the gospel of Jesus Christ, and have never doubted it, no, not even for a second. This implications started with JS' apparent teaching that God the Father was a Christ during his mortal probation. LDS church on Gilgul or multiple mortal probations. God bless you for speaking truth. It is a fairly new idea to me but seems entirely plausible. Let's review multiple scriptures that allow us to see things as they really are: 1) The Plan of Happiness. to use samsung voice input you need to allow the appear on top permission in settings s21 If it does not come from the Prophet they will not even investigate. Multiple Probations: A Lost Doctrine Remembered Paperback - January 15, 2020 by Eric J Smith (Author), Gregory P Christiansen (Author), Julie Rowe (Editor) 35 ratings See all formats and editions Paperback $10.12 Other used and collectible from $10.12 DAY 10 | LIVE UPDATES: Alex Cox's widow says Chad and Lori Daybell Likewise those who want Kabbalistic influence on Joseph (which I personally find pretty dubious - we don't know the extent of Neibaur's actual knowledge of Kabbalah or Kabbalistic texts) simultaneously require a misreading of these texts. and so I can testify that the doctrine of multiple probations is true doctrine. He, Only He. Promised wives, seed without number, be full partaker with Abraham, Isaac., and Jacob. grudge against anyone who does not believe, or who does not want to know more And they who remain shall also be quickened; nevertheless, they shall return again to their own place [the telestial kingdom where they now live], to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received.". D&C 132 on the other hand was dictated in 1843, prime time for this topic. It is truly beautiful, for how can we grow without those who are willing to play those opposing roles? There is a humbling reward in the sense of Fathers confidence in me, While I may not be able to answer these and other questions, It is hard to feel like you live in a closet and that church has been a lonely experience at times. Benjamin Seeker It is so obvious and even though hidden. have troubled them throughout their lives. Choose one innovative idea the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has announced in the last 10 years. I shelved it for sometime until I was lead back to studying it a year later. Prescendia Huntington Buell (later Kimball) also affirmed her belief in "plural probations," referring to a statement "in confirmation" by her polyandrous husband Joseph Smiths. I see that I am at the beginning of a long path of understanding. The doctrine of multiple probations felt natural and right to me as soon as I heard them. I first heard briefly the Doctrine of Multiple Probations from Julie Rowe on AVOW an LDS forum, the arguments that followed, all bothered me, I was at that time on my own journey. I have learned for The sources are quoted from boap.org and the MF0081 "Multiple Mortal Probations: LDS Related Quotes" document found at mormonpolygamydocuments.org. There is just too much to experience for once to be enough. we would not have experience and could not really gain knowledge or wisdom. Greg pointed out another of these natural and likely divine reminders and shadows to me, in the daily rising and setting of the sun. Details mapped state by state. The LDS church teaches the Pauline principle of many degrees in heaven. The Widow's Mite presents, an overview of Church land ownership in the USA. Then one early morning between 3-4am I was told by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ this very Doctrine of Multiple Probations, I was shown much about my Previous Lives and how extensive those lives had been. One of the things that became obviously clear to me is the purpose and reason for title names. At one point I had to stop believing any thing he said to me of a spiritual nature and this set me on my path to get my own inspiration of the true doctrine. Thank you!! But my mother died recently and the idea of her in another probation feels a bit heartbreaking. I love you all and am thankful for the puzzle piece of truth each of you has to offer in my journey. I said, Wait a little. I did not reject it, but I could not understand it.[a] This is one of my favorite examples of how to receive new concepts with an open heart. He has some ideas that are popular among Snufferites (such as some version of multiple mortal probations). Which is not what actually happens. Alaris we are talking about multiple mortal probations that are all human.] I am not good in writing but I BELIEVE, I BELIEVE, I BELIEVE!!! And they who remain shall also be quickened; nevertheless, they shall return again to their own place [the telestial kingdom where they now live], to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received.". DRAFT. We welcome comments of all kinds on this blog and feel that people should be free to debate and discuss the topics in accordance with their personal views, so long as it is done in a courteous and respectful manner. Ill be looking forward to hearing more!!! There is deeper meaning in this i wont go into here but i love and admire both of you and the way you both gracefully and meekly bring about true doctrines to light. Whatever the case, I am certain that the most important factor about what relationships will look like in the eternities is agency. He taught Church history and doctrine for many years at Brigham Young University.He was also the director of the Latter-day Saint historical collection in the Harold B. Lee Library.. There is only one truth but countless falsehoods. presence which left him fallen to the ground, he was able to declare to are so advanced in their abilities and gifts from birth, such as music, art, Some say that they dont believe in do overs. At best it just means the Holy Ghost doesn't have a body and will one day, will die, and will be resurrected. principle, it is not important to know. He, Only He. The main topics are the levels, or ladder, of eternal progression and the end times servant otherwise known as the Davidic Servant. Among early Christians and LDS the doctrine of multiple mortal probations was taught. 2:307 or TPJS, pp. Ever since first hearing the doctrine of Multiple Mortal Probations, I have felt peace in this knowledge. We know that there is opposition in all things. Thanks for sharing this interesting history. But Icanlook upon thee in the natural I am forever grateful to you both and for your ability to enlighten ME!! That marriage ended in divorce and left me and others in a lot of pain and devastation as to discernment of truth and error, light and darkness, in such gifts. I was always looked at with the eyes of (Oh Brother). Possession, castings, and first interaction with Chad on day 9 of the Hi. Perhaps Im misunderstanding. I do have a question though. assigned to a kingdom of glory, whether Telestial, Terrestrial, or Celestial, honestly I never thought of this doctrine before I crossed your podcast. How did we live in the pre mortal realms and agree to a plan to come here where we only had one shot to get it right? In other words I don't believe this theology, andI'm not recommending beliefs or anything along those lines. I believe even to the point that if I see an extra dark effort to oppose something then it must be very significant. Although Sister Rowe is an active member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, her book is not endorsed by the Church and should not be recommended to students or used as a resource in teaching them. We seem to continually become more and more of who and what we are. The new day starts at a moment no one can see very much (its a kind of a hope). Then meeting you several years ago in Idaho, i feel our paths have crossed before. But I can understand a model where the soul continues to return to learn new things and progress. Such an endeavor would not be possible without the collaboration and efforts of volunteers, community groups, faith- and . Essentially, we are private individuals freely exercising the right to discuss doctrinal opinions, and to bear witness of things we feel to be true. THE PROBATIONARY TEST OF MORTALITY. I have to be honest. Just think of the fun rides in life one could take though Ken! the past has fueled our desire to serve God more diligently, and to fight the greater majority of the worlds population have patiently been waiting for I don't deny one can read it that way, but the more natural reading is that in his first mortality the Father was Christ. I know that this is true. What did Jesus do? Reincarnation or Multiple Mortal Probations - FAIR JS taught many times that Michael stood next to Christ in authority, and he also taught that Elohim was the head of the Gods (i.e. He wrote, "Jesus Christ spoke in this manner; I do as my Father before me did. Thank you for sharing! Multiple Mortalities Joseph Smith and Multiple Mortal Probations, Apologetics, Law (not licensed), Reading (Re: 2nd Coming of Late), Writing (Published: Deseret News, SL Trib, New Era, Utah Peace Officer), http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/movies/shirley-maclaine-tells-film-set-stories-line-article-1.2545803. I view these gifts largely to be the result of mortal . So. He was a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. My friend Julie and I have discussed this doctrine openly on podcasts, and I have written about it on my personal blog. . Multiple Mortal Probation Archives - Latter-day Commentary - Last Days - Signs of the Times Multiple Mortal Probation You Have Been Here Before 50 Comments / Doctrine, Mormon culture, Personal Revelation / By Tim Malone / May 3, 2013 Some of my regular readers are going to be mad at me. Can someone please give me some context for how this idea is considered doctrine? Another George Laub journal entry on JS' Sermon In the Grove seems to confirm that this is how Laub understood it. They went to the temple quite often and met up with each other there. Even more than that I feel that spirit of truth in my heart that it is true. Having been so moved upon in the process of discovery, my friend Greg and I compiled a book called Multiple Probations which is a compilation of interesting history, supportive scriptures, and informative quotes from early authorities of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The Seven Deadly Heresies | Bruce R. McConkie | BYU Speeches John 9:2 So, I'll just comment that thepoints you bring up nicely illustrate some of the basictension that this theology introduces. With a larger canon than most religions, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have access to a great many doctrines regarding this topic. (And there are multiple forms - the form of being human, the form of being Jewish, the form of being a prophet, etc. What surprised me was the fact that it resonated with something in me even as it was a total new doctrine to me. According to the Encyclopedia of Mormonism, as. I have nothing to add but simply following the conversation. church. The very idea of reincarnation which we know to be a false doctrine- tells us that there is its opposite- which would be Multiple Mortal Probations. You know Eric its interesting to me how much i have loved James Allen for so many years and how you were also inspired by him. Perhaps the trouble is we tend to think about such things linearly, rather than multidimensionally. Under the doctrine of multiple probations it makes it fair that those without the . God bless you. Libraries. While young, we learn hot from cold, day from night, What is it? 44 Wherefore, he saves ALL EXCEPT THEMthey shall go away into everlasting punishment, which is endless punishment, which is eternal punishment, to reign with the devil and his angels in eternity, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched, which is their torment. It is time to live in faith not fear. The purpose was not to claim that it is the doctrine of the Church, as we have no authority in that regard. visionary, who can discern spirits, or who possess extraordinary compassion, Taking it as implying a loss of resurrection, a new fall, and a new veil of forgetfulness of course isn't in the text. They also vicariously ordained Joseph and Hyrum to do the same. Although it had to be put on a shelf for a year or so when I first heard about it, the Fringe Doctrine of Multiple Mortal Probations has answered many of my questions about Christ, our Father and Mother, the Noble and Great Ones, the 144,000, the Olympians, Prophets of Old and of Latter Days, and the hope that my friends and family members still have if they choose not to forgive themselves and progress in THIS life! Shapes and forms can not be seen, but you can hear, sense and feel things Sometimes it seems to be the part of the day where one is in despairBut at that point, where no light can be seen the new day is already beginningSometimes it feels like only the hope of the rising sun (son) will carry you to the first sunbeam And when the sun or the son, as you call it, starts rising there come new possibilities or perspectives along. Blessings to all seekers. Nor do I believe that a full understanding of Who I Am, in all the Eternal facets of my Being, qualifies me to take responsibility for doing Fathers work in somehow translating this knowledge to another. We invite you to share this with all those you know who might benefit from it. D&C 88 dates to 1833, which is long before JS was revealing/discussing reincarnation related doctrine. despite my human weakness. At the north end of the FLDS community is an abandoned man-made cave, which is a bunker-like network of tunnels drilled 100-yards deep . Heather, I love that name for it. I feel like this life is equivalent to a year in school and I am in 5th grade. Multiple Mortal Probations The final theology on reincarnation on this plane we will look at in this article will be the Brighamite idea of multiple mortal probations (MMP). Regarding Chad and Lori's "multiple probations" - Reddit Knowing myself well enough to know that I would never have agreed to such a thing knowing my own weaknesses all too well..and having been able to learn from on high many amazing things in temple service..i began to question the plan as it was being taught every sunday..my questions as a spiritually gifted woman were met mostly with disdain amidst the patriarchy and toxic perfectionism of many members through no fault of their own but through false Traditions that have been passed down and incomplete doctrines. There is a Facebook Group where this doctrine has been presented the true version of it with all the evidence in forms of quotes. felt very final[i]. Other saints (W.W. Phelps) were blessed to act in Trinities (or Presidencies of worlds). Multiple Mortal Probation Archives - Latter-day Commentary It explains how many in the premortal council of heaven had become noble and great (Abraham 3:22). Your peaceful witness strengthens my own. If this were false, then why do I want to strive to be a better disciple of Jesus Christ? But there is some mystery here. Multiple Mortal Probations - New Cool Thang Multiple Mortal Probations Article - LDS Freedom Forum I know many people think this is false doctrine and I did put myself in their shoes to understand where they were coming fromI could see what they were trying to say, but the fruits werent lining up. nature. I do so realizing it could be the very thing that causes estrangement from my family, friends, and my church. When I have read the account where the church leaders during the Saviors time were asking him if he were Jeremiah or some other great prophet, that never made sense to me until after reading your book, then it made perfect sense to me. What he explained can be understood as a spiritual path that one has to walk the path of baptism back home to heavenly father. Question. millions of people from around the world are part of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints . This doctrine tastes delicious to me, and I glory in my God for His omniscience and almighty power to bring about our salvation and exultation in wonder and mysterious ways. Praise God and Praise the Lord! Item #6a. Harold, your thoughts and perspective are priceless. It was like having a deep spiritual sigh while being purged of a host of simplistic, faulty, misleading, worrisome beliefs I had never recognized were dragging me down. The views expressed herein belong to the authors only and do not represent official doctrine for any church. I will ponder about it and ask Heavenly Father. Thank you Eric, Greg and Julie for your Multiple Probations book, essays and podcasts of supporting scripture and history. What follows is a thesis on the controversial doctrine from the 19th century referred to as multiple mortal probations, which fell out of favor along with Adam-God. Answer (1 of 5): The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has a book called Preach My Gospel, which is an official guide for missionaries. I am so grateful that we have the privilege now of hearing about this and learning more about the mysteries of God. Many people, including my children, were hurt in the process, all because I was leaning on his spiritual gifts that turned out to be clouded with false doctrine. I admire your truth seeking and truth-recognizing abilities. Perhaps the clearest example of this is a statement recorded by Nauvoo saint, George Laub. And as the head of our creation under the Father, it is Jesus who will be head in the next creation the way the father is. Now the doctrine of multiple probations brings me great peace. Multiple Mortal Probations - The True and Living Church of Jesus Christ consider to be a blessed gift from God. I know you and Julie Row are Great tools in the Lords hand in this last days. Does the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints accept the - Quora Why he went and took a body and went to redeem a world in the flesh and had power to lay down his life and to take it up again.". I experienced a baptism of fire when I was only 14 years old and it has sustained me my entire life. alteration of what seems to be the once purer doctrine taught long ago. Known holdings place as #2 top landowner, very close to #1. Thanks for sharing. Some are asking why this doctrine is necessary. Seems to me that there is as much evidence for this reincarnation doctrine as there is for the Heavenly Mother doctrine. Please watch for Part 2 of this theme by Matt Palmer to be released in the next couple days, and Part 3 by Greg Christiansen a couple days thereafter. I want to move forward and progress to the next grade. I highly recommend Multiple Probations: A Lost Doctrine Remembered by Eric Smith and Greg Christiansen, edited by Julie Rowe. I too grew up knowing that Reincarnation was/ is a false doctrine, but also grew up in a culture that taught that those who made mistakes and took their guilt from said mistakes to their grave without repentance or forgiveness were eternally assigned to a lower Kingdom of Glory, only to be visited by friends and family members in higher kingdoms. Never at any time in my research and doctrinal interests have zombies, adultery, and murder ever remotely crossed my mind. Multiple Mortal Probations Part II Get link Facebook Twitter Pinterest Email Other Apps November 16, 2018 . Lucifer, where is thyglory, that I should worship thee? Richards wrote, "Joseph also said that the Holy Ghost is now in a state of Probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has.". I learned long ago to stay quiet in Sunday school. Im sealed to my husband. Eric, Multiple Mortal Probations Thank you Ericfor putting what I know to be true into words. Joseph Smith and Multiple Mortal Probations I am eternally grateful for all of the doctrines that you and Julie and others you work with have been brave enough to bring forward to those of us who were so very ready to embrace higher truths through the spirit..Lucifer continues to whisper to me that I am a nobody, and why out of all the people on the earth would I be privileged to have knowledge that only a few believe and have currently? Where is the God of hope in the thought of being consigned to an eternal damnation with no way to progress?
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